« HYBELS: Don't Ever Think This is Normal | Main | Are You a Reader, but not a Member of our Feed? »
Friday, October 28, 2005
Pastor: Do You Live in a Bubble?
Scott Williams is a former pastor who now looks back at his professional career differently. Here's an interesting post... see what you think... Do you live in a bubble?
career ministers have absolutely no idea what the real world is like.
i remember a small group where i was pontificating the difference between men and women. i told the ladies present that when guys get together, away from their wives, they will usually talk about deep stuff, given the chance.
it was at this juncture that my male friend terry, who rarely said anything, looked at me square in the face and said something like, "what are you saying? normal guys aren't like that..." of course, being the idiot i was i argued with him. he continued to look at me like i was from another planet. he meekly told me that the guys he hangs out with are nothing like the touchy-feely guys i must talk to. it has bothered me to this day.
i didn't live in the real world as a minister. by my very presence i seemed to dictate how conversations would go. people acted different around me, hard to imagine. i asked penetrating questions that other guys would get laughed at for asking. i had license. i was a priest of sorts. people expected me to talk weird.
since leaving the pulpit i have begun to notice a subtle change in the way people talk to me and around me. i noticed this recently when i was standing at the back in church and people were gossiping right beside me... about the way the church was being run. in the 'before time' i would have never been privy to such a conversation.
ministers believe they have a firmer grasp on the human condition than most of those around them. they truly believe that they are paid to ask the big questions, to study humanity, to figure things out. it is not surprising then that they start to form elitist opinions about how people should behave, what they should think, and why things are the way they are.
it is hard for me to admit that i have had my head in the clouds much of my professional life. normal people did not think the same way i did. i based countless sermons on a misguided understanding of reality. if pastors live in a glass bubble then it is also true that they live in a nerf one. they are padded from much of what is really going on. sure they see the most graphic portrayals of sin, but only as an empathetic outsider. add to this the growing trend among pastors to demand better salaries, the prevalence of home-schooling and christian schools, the privileged positions they maintain in society, and you don't have a person who is anything like the welder he or she is trying to "reach".
What do you think? Do you live in a bubble? Are you able to think the same way as 'normal' people? Does Scott's theory have any truth?
Add Your Comments and Ideas now...Pass this post on to a friend now...
Subscribe to RSS Feed | Get Email Notifications on New Posts
October 28, 2005 in Leadership Issues | Permalink
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83451dafb69e200d834932e3969e2
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Pastor: Do You Live in a Bubble?:
Comments
At last! An article that describes how I feel about a number of career pastors.
Not all, but least a good number.
I entered "full-time" ministry in my mid-30's and am a bi-vocational pastor right now. I'm in the real world every day. I used to resent it because it means time away from stuff that needs to be done (sermon prep, home visitation of the sick, etc.). Of course, one advantage of this is that I get to delegate stuff to others who should be "doing" the ministry anyway (Eph. 4:11-13).
Regarding the "bubble," I've long felt that I'm actually at an advantage in that arena. Having been happily employed in the "secular" world for a number of years, I feel that I can relate better to those who come to me with issues of workplace problems, and even for co-workers of mine who have questions about God and such. Because they see that outside of my title of pastor, I'm a regular guy trying to live out my faith and be a model of Jesus for them.
Sometimes I think that if it were up to me, all up and coming ministers would have to work at a secular job for at least 2 years before taking a pastorate. Not very likely, but oh well...
By the way, we bi-vo guys would covet your prayers for a number of things:
(1) Time away from our families as we work extra to support them.
(2) That we would be consistent models of christlikeness, particularly in our relationships with co-workers, bosses, customers, etc., and in our workplace efforts.
(3) That we would be ready to share the gospel with all of the above when the opportunity arises.
Thanks!
Brian
Posted by: Brian La Croix | Oct 28, 2005 9:51:10 AM
"the privileged positions they maintain in society,"
What planet is this dude living on? Ministers haven't had "privileged positions in society" since the '50's.
Anywho, I think the problem stems from how we train, and what is expected, of pastors. I went to Bible College for four years and got a worthless Bible degree that takes up space on my wall. Now, as I find myself needing to be bivocational, I can't find a job (unless God helps) any better than stocking shelves on third shift at Kroger. Please don't misunderstand me - it is not beneath me to stock shelves, but it is way beneath what I need financially at this juncture of my life.
The point is, every person who desires to go into ministry should get a degree in anything else besides Bible/Theology, and then find a good two year ministry training program (Master's Commission?, and then enter ministry. Have the ability to work a full-time job outside of the church that pays well, and enables you to not be dependent on, or demanding of, a high salary from the church.
NEVER, NEVER go to Bible college or seminary first. Get a skill. Learn a trade. Get a degree. THEN, get ministry training. That is the only way I counsel people wanting to go into ministry.
If only I could do it all over again...what a waste of my life and time.
Posted by: Art | Oct 28, 2005 11:25:33 AM
Quote:
"I went to Bible College for four years and got a worthless Bible degree that takes up space on my wall. Now, as I find myself needing to be bivocational, I can't find a job (unless God helps) any better than stocking shelves on third shift at Kroger."
Art, you've hit on the uselessness of seminary training for those in the real world.
I will be praying for you and your situation.
Posted by: Ricky | Oct 28, 2005 12:19:40 PM
Like Brian, I've worked in the secular world since graduating from Bible College and unlike Art (who seems to have some VERY real issues) had a good solid foundational instruction in the Scriptures (doctrinally wrong on some issues), I would say that because of this foundational instruction in Scripture, God has guided my path toward knowing Him/The Scriptures more (able to stand).
I write about this post because what I have found most interesting is the unwillingness of pastors to discuss beliefs (especially their own). Most want only to have a "surface" or pretend relationship with the parishoners (never really getting to deep or too close).
What I've also found is that many pastors, although verbally wanting to be "one of the guys", rarely has the true "desire" to be one of the guys. Almost as though they expect to be treated differently.
So what should the pastor do? Be open. First with his staff then with his elders and deacons. Get close to them, get deep with them. Test beliefs and ask questions. Grow together in the Word of God.
What should the parishoners do? Learn the Scriptures. Seek to be taught. Ask questions and grow in your faith through The Word. Don't gossip/backbite or talebare.
Both should be real with the world: Guilt is upon them and they need an Advocate. Tell them about the verdict against them and the good news about THE Advocate Who is Able to Save them.
As for Scott... I'm not sure who Terry hangs out with. Are they Believers or unbelievers? Their statement sounds like that of an unbeliever "touchy-feely".
If we're suggesting we "hang with the world more" then Scripturally I disagree. I, like Brian, have opportunities to be light in the world, but many times, darkness has no desire to be near light so, I know and fully understand, many times, friends at work (unbelievers) won't act the same around me as they do around other unbelievers. This is just part of being light.
Is Scott no longer a minister? Why not?
Posted by: BeHim | Oct 28, 2005 2:10:56 PM
Do I live in a bubble? No I don't think so. I worked in the secular world for almost ten years before going full time as a minister. As for the seminary students, do they not have jobs while going to school? I put myself through a Bible University. So I had to work a full-time job. Most Seminarys and Bible colleges are expensive so I would be willing to bet the students going there have jobs on the side.
I do agree that people treat me differently when they find out I am a minister. However I have worked some pretty rough jobs in my day, so I think I live in the real world.
Also I deal with some pretty rough stuff when I counsel people. NO I don't think I live in a Bubble.
Posted by: Jade | Oct 28, 2005 2:36:26 PM
Art said:
"NEVER, NEVER go to Bible college or seminary first. "
I disagree big time. I'm starting seminary late in life. I look at some role-models like John Calvin. Read his works; the Institutes of the Christian Faith. Brilliant! And I think he was only in his 20's/30's when he wrote it.
Art, you may only live til tomorrow. Would you still regret the chance to minister as you did if you died tomorrow? Sounds like you went into ministry prematurely. I think the good thing about seminary is that you can study it, and the hard questions, before you're in a position to defend and pronounce the faith. Seminary causes many to lose faith; maybe that's good, moving from warm to hot or cold.
The good thing about being treated differently; peple expect you to be a holy role-model. Motivation to live up to it, and the message... 1 Peter 4:11.
...Bernie
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/247
Posted by: Bernie Dehler | Oct 28, 2005 4:10:43 PM
At first, I was going to say, hey, I resent, er, resemble that remark! :) But taking a breath, and reading thru the comments that preceded me, I think it's really what you make of it. A career pastor can live in a bubble. Or, a career pastor can be wise and keenly aware of what's happening in the everyday lives of people. It's what s/he makes of it.
Posted by: djchuang | Oct 30, 2005 6:06:47 PM
