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Thursday, December 01, 2005
Megachurch Pastors Express Regret, Urge Churches to Mobilize Against HIV/AIDS
This was just uploaded at The Christian Post website. Written by Michelle Vu:
Megachurch pastors Bill Hybels and Rick Warren both expressed their deep regrets for not joining the fight against HIV/AIDS sooner as they partner to call the Church to quickly take action in the battle against one of the world’s greatest humanitarian emergencies.
Bill Hybels, senior pastor of the 18,000-membered Willow Creek Church in South Barrington, Ill., and Rick Warren of the 20,000-membered Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif. both began their sessions Tuesdays with apologies for their lack of awareness and response to the pandemic that is expected to kill 93 million people by 2010.
“Willow would be on the list of churches to get it too late,” reflected Hybels. “As I look back, I take full responsibility for this. Our church just celebrated its 30th anniversary last month. I have to live with that. I confess it. I believe it is covered with the cross but it is a mystery to me why I didn’t get it.”
Similarly, Warren lamented during the opening session, “A few years ago I had to repent. How did I miss this? What were the blinders on my eyes? You can’t just care about people spiritually but you have to tend to people physically too.”
Kay Warren, Rick Warren’s wife and Saddleback co-minister, also shared the burden of remorse during the press conference.
“Just go ahead and admit it. We have largely not been there,” she said. “We have to take a moment to say that we were wrong. We know that God cares about people with HIV/AIDS. We believe the church has a significant role to play.”
As a result of their realization, the two megachurch pastors and their wives – who actually were the ones to initiate the idea to their husbands that churches should respond to HIV/AIDS – co-sponsored the first international “local” church conference on the role of the Church and AIDS. One of the resounding messages throughout day was the need for churches to respond and respond quickly.
“I met a woman from Uganda who told me, ‘I think it is really great that you people come together to plan. But you have to remember that every day you come to meet, people are dying,’” said Lynne Hybels, wife of Bill Hybels.
“We didn’t know anything but we had a sense of urgency that we had to move on,” she added.
Lynne, who visited Uganda and other African nations a few years ago had described her experience as “one of the most disturbing moments in my life.”
She continued by saying, “I hated who I was. I was a privilege American to the children. I was just one more person who failed to respond to their needs. I sobbed at the horror at the moment.”
Bill Hybels followed by urging pastors and church leaders attending the conference to simply do what they can despite their insufficiencies, lack of knowledge and resources and let God take care of the rest.
“That is what God is asking – give it a shot,” said the Willow Creek Senior Pastor. “He will meet you along the way but you have to move. He will give you the people, resources, and money.”
And Rick Warren, in concluding the day, said, “When we look at AIDS crisis and the overwhelming complexities, it is despairing. But despair is the starting point, not the end. The church has to get involved.”
“The church has been missing in action. If we are the Body why aren’t we ministering with the whole Body?” he asked.
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December 1, 2005 in Trends in Today's Church | Permalink
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» AIDS & the Church from uconnchurch.com: BLOG
In a remarkable joint venture, Bill & Lynne Hybels (Willow Creek) and Rick & Kay Warren (Saddlback) -- representing two of the most infuential, impressive, and Kingdom Building churches of our time, are hosting a conference edicated to the issue... [Read More]
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» AIDS & the Church from uconnchurch.com: BLOG
In a remarkable joint venture, Bill & Lynne Hybels (Willow Creek) and Rick & Kay Warren (Saddleback) -- representing two of the most infuential, impressive, and Kingdom Building churches of our time, are hosting a conference edicated to the issue... [Read More]
Tracked on Dec 1, 2005 2:54:59 PM
Comments
Todd this urge of Hybels and Warren to engage themselves in the AIDS battle will be very telling of their ability to discern good from evil insofar as how they align themselves within the battle. Of prime importance will be whether or not they side with the drug companies whom have made it their sole focus to obliterate any alternative therapies for AIDS that have and continue to show great promise if not providing a cure for the illness. Case in point the battle Matthias Rath is fighting in South Africa against the TAC organization (aka Front Group for Big Pharma seeking to silence Dr. Rath) and others bent on getting people on ARV's. I'd ask that you do some research on this before you jump on a bandwagon that very likely covers up the truth and perpetuates lies (of whom we know who the author is) - visit http://www.dr-rath-foundation.org.za/ and see the difference nutrients make in the lives of patients diagnosed HIV + and some with full-blown AIDS.
I tried to find out more of the direction of the Warren/Hybels partnership in this area but was unable to get a straight response from a Saddleback notable, Richard Abanes.
The Bible clearly calls us not to be unequally yoked - which I guess Warren and Hybels have chosen to ignore in many respects.
In Christ,
Bill
Posted by: Bill | Dec 1, 2005 10:06:36 AM
"The church has been missing in action."
Not true. The church has been on the front lines of the battle against AIDS, hunger, human rights etc. Ask any inner-city pastor if his church has not been involved in the AIDS crisis and he'll look at you like you're an alien.
Ask any developing world pastor if his church is disengaged and he'll also look at you like you are pitifully uninformed.
There may be churches in affluent countries that haven't had a clue about these issues, but the U.S. church (although rich in resources) is not "the" church.
Hybels, Warren and others were fighting other issues on other fronts to their credit. Just because they have discovered the crisis doesn't mean that it only now has come to exist.
I personally welcome their involvement with their resources, their expertise, their prayers. But let's not suggest that the "church" has been absent in these battles just because American mega-churches hadn't discovered the reality and urgency of these needs.
Posted by: pjlr | Dec 1, 2005 10:09:54 AM
Bill,
Oh my... more controversy. I can't win.
Are you saying they may be unequally yolked with the drug companies?!
Argh.
Todd
Posted by: Todd | Dec 1, 2005 10:13:42 AM
Bill brings up an interesting point, and in addition, it is very important to take a holistic view of the problems in places like Africa. The over-riding problems there are problems of poverty, which leads to ignorance, which eventually fosters an environment where AIDS spreads like crazy.
I agree with the spirit of what Warren and Hybels are saying on this matter, but I share a little of Bill's concerns about how it takes shape, and also I am concerned that we address the issues of poverty and ignorance (the two "children of man" that are described so eloquently by Dickens in "A Christmas Carol" by the way) at the same time.
Let's find ways to do that!
Posted by: Peter Hamm | Dec 1, 2005 10:14:56 AM
The reason why it was overlooked was because the local church wasn't looking internationally. Once it does, it will awaken to how most of the world lives. It will find out about things like AIDS, and that millions of people have never heard of Christ (unlike in America where people hear it on radio, tv, etc.). I good eye opener is getting and reading the free book at Gospel for Asia (gfa.org).
Maybe eventually we'll get to see our self-deception in wealth. Pastors always say "it's OK to be wealthy; it's the LOVE of money that is evil." I think our minds will change when we see what a few bucks can accomplish for Christ in a foreign land, compared to living in America in a luxury home, having a luxury car, and taking luxury vacations (and condoning such things, such as sponsoring "Bible Study Cruises," etc.). We don't have $30 a month to sponsor a child, but we have enough money to upgrade to leather seats in our cars.
Just my opinion. You are free to reject it.
...Bernie
Rev. 3:
16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
Posted by: Bernie Dehler | Dec 1, 2005 10:16:36 AM
pljr,
Please read a post from yesterday:
http://www.mmiblog.com/monday_morning_insight_we/2005/11/church_leaders_.html
I'm afraid you've violated #1:
1. Turn someone’s generality into an absolute.
You took their "The church has been missing in action" comment and made it into "EVERY church has been missing in action".
SOME churches do great in their response to AIDS. MOST do not.
Out of the 300,000 churches in America, very few have even uttered the word AIDS much less done anything aobut it. And I have to agree with both Hybels and Warren on this one: The church, by and large, HAS been missing in action.
pljr: "But let's not suggest that the "church" has been absent in these battles just because American mega-churches hadn't discovered the reality and urgency of these needs."
For crying out loud. It's not just the megachurches. And even if it was; two of the largest megachurch pastors came out and said they were actually sinful for neglecting this issue. And all some can do is rag on them and their large churches.
This stuff has got to stop.
Todd
Posted by: Todd | Dec 1, 2005 10:18:56 AM
Preach it, Todd!
Posted by: Matt | Dec 1, 2005 10:37:26 AM
God bless Pastors Hybels and Warren.
May God's Holy Spirit use these men, their families, and the congregations they shepherd to do mighty things for those who suffer from AIDS/HIV.
God bless them both!
Posted by: Phil Hoover-Chicago | Dec 1, 2005 10:38:41 AM
Again, we are back at the problem of being "right" verses "love." Yesterday our church accepted toys from Toys for Tots and Wal Mart to give to needy people at our "Christmas Store" which is our largest missions effort during the year. Does this mean we are "unequally yoked?" Can we just applaud people for stepping up to the plate instead of nit-picking. I'm glad that Hybels and Warren have spoken out.
Posted by: Kevin | Dec 1, 2005 10:40:02 AM
God bless them both for using their widespread influence over thousands to bring awareness to this problem. I'm also encouraged by the humility they both showed in their public confession of their ignorance.
I don't think, however, that they were wrong for just now joining the fight. As they have both pursued God and led their churches, I'm sure God would have given them a significant burden sooner if He had desired it for them. I'm just thankful that God is patient with all of us as believers and as leaders.
Posted by: Rob | Dec 1, 2005 10:52:06 AM
Here's my concern:
AIDS is described as the leprosy of our times. And I have a problem with that.
There is no doubt that AIDS is a scourge and that we should do what we can, medically, sociologically, and of course, spiritually, to stop it and help the innocent victims of it.
However, there is a between leprosy and AIDS: AIDS is 100% preventable. It is spread by lifestyle decisions, even to the children.
Children generally get AIDS from parents who have it, who got it either from their own parents or their own actions (usually purposely, not accidentally).
Sex and intraveneous (sp?) drugs are far and away the biggest sources of the virus.
I've thought for years that it would be great to have a cure for AIDS, and that it should be given to the INNOCENT victims - the kiddos who had absolutely no choice in the matter, and those who got it from rape.
I would not be in favor of giving it to those who had no intention of curbing the dangerous behavior that spreads it. I might be in favor of a vaccine to prevent it, but not a cure.
Heartless? Maybe. But it might be an incentive to help with the idea that you may not go around wantonly engaging in behavior that endangers yourself and others.
Here in the US we have laws against knowingly engaging in behavior that spreads the disease if you have it. Even spitting on a police officer if you have AIDS or are HIV positive can bring charges of attempted murder.
So the question becomes this: how can act on the valid concern of stopping this disease without giving it the credibility given diseases that are not caused by human decision?
How many children die each year of leukemia? How did they get it? Did they engage in dangerous behavior? Nope. What about breast cancer in those who don't smoke, use birth control pills (if the link can be proven), etc.?
I think I've made my point.
Before I get off this, let me be quick to say that I've lost 2 friends to AIDS. Both got it through homosexual sex. This isn't just something I read about and form opinions regarding.
Thanks, Todd, for letting me rant for a moment.
Brian
Posted by: Brian La Croix | Dec 1, 2005 10:57:12 AM
You guys who act as if Warren and Hybels speaking out is in some way beginning the opportunity to do something about AIDS - where have you guys been over the past 20 years as HIV/AIDS funding has surpassed research funding for many other illnesses? AIDS awareness has been preeminent for years and yet some might take from your comments that it is just now beginning to gain attention - that is ludicrous.
As for praising Warren for humility - I would think of many other words to describe the man who wants the entire worlds churches to fall in line with him to develop the worlds greatest distribution network - humility is not among them.
In Christ,
Bill
Posted by: Bill | Dec 1, 2005 10:58:12 AM
I agree with Rob. By making such a big deal about their own "neglect" of this issue first instead of just launching a campaign out right, I really think it shows how passionate and how authentic these men are in desiring their churches and believers in general to take the love of God to every niche of the world, including the sick and hurting. Naysayers of mega churches can say what they will, but these men have affected thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of lives for the kingdom of God. Praise God for using them like he has. I pray that God could use me in the same way.
Posted by: Matt | Dec 1, 2005 11:00:40 AM
Oh, and by the way, I want to make clear that my comments are not meant to be disparaging to RW & BH and their efforts.
I'm wondering if the timing has more to do with the fact that these guys are so recognizable world-wide that their call to action will reach more ears than before, and therefore bring more results?
Just speculating, here, but hey - it's still relatively early in the day, and I've only had three cups of coffee!
Be blessed, brothers. I'm going to step away from this one.
Brian
Posted by: Brian La Croix | Dec 1, 2005 11:05:56 AM
Bill,
with all do respect, do you know Rick Warren? I think he is a man of God. I went to his PDC conference a few years ago and sent him a thank you note. He actually took time to write me a hand written note. Is he perfect, no. But why do Christians feel the need to bash other Christians?
Posted by: Kevin | Dec 1, 2005 11:07:58 AM
Brian, I see what you're saying and I understand your frustration...but where's the grace, man? We all knowingly sin at many *MANY* points in our lives... but does God ever stop taking us back? The people who knowlingly take the risk at spreading AIDs should be the primary target of our efforts to show God's love and grace in the hopes at showing them how their attitudes destroy lives. And if they don't change their ways...well...then they'll have to face God on judgement day. Let's go out of our way to help these people and let God be the judge in the end. Thanks for being honest though. I've been just as frustrated about this as well.
Posted by: Matt | Dec 1, 2005 11:08:35 AM
Bill,
http://www.mmiblog.com/monday_morning_insight_we/2005/11/church_leaders_.html
You violate rule #5:
Assume the dumbest interpretation.
You said, "You guys who act as if Warren and Hybels speaking out is in some way beginning the opportunity to do something about AIDS - where have you guys been over the past 20 years as HIV/AIDS funding has surpassed research funding for many other illnesses?"
No one ever said that, Bill.
We all have known about AIDS for years, but up until now have had to be 'unequally yolked' with the likes of Bono, Bill Gates, and the UN to help find a solution.
That Hybels and Warren speaking out does is help to mobilize other church leaders who have, up to this point, been silent on the issue.
But that's not the real issue... I'd rather talk about how arrogant and egotistical Rick Warren is.
Enough already. We get that you don't like Rick Warren.
I don't get it. And probably never will.
Let's move back to the subject at hand, and the original post.
I, for one, applaud the efforts made, by Bono and Warren.
Todd
Posted by: Todd | Dec 1, 2005 11:09:55 AM
How does the Bible tell us to treat those who are sick?
First it tells us to pray for them, Second, it tell us to take care of their needs,(cold water to the thirsty, clothes for the naked, food for the hungry, covering for the homeless.) Whether a person has AIDs or not, this should be our response. Yet it shouldn’t stop here! The scriptures also tell us to warn the sinner, and to encourage them to turn from evil to good. We cannot neglect the one for the other. Some only preach against sin, and never help those affected by sin (even when it's their own fault), others only help alleviate the affects and never preach against the sin. We must have balance here, my friends.
"My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20"
Blessings,
Pastor Al
Posted by: Pastor Al | Dec 1, 2005 11:21:56 AM
I think I almost agree with you Al...but do we warn the non-believers in the same way we do our "brothers"? I just don't think it works the same way. I'd prefer to focus on making believers out of them before we try and tell them how their doing everything wrong. Sure we need them to realize that sin leads to destruction, but first we need to convince them of the significance or even the existence of this idea of sin because it requires the acknowledgement of a God to whom to sin against.
Did that make sense?
Posted by: Matt | Dec 1, 2005 11:26:32 AM
Hi Matt,
I know I said I was done, but I thought I'd better clear up an apparent misconception.
I do believe in grace. Big time. I am in need of forgiveness just like anybody else. But there is such as thing as consequences for actions, especially willful actions. If I make stupid choices, I cannot expect God to withhold natural consequences nor heavenly discipline if needed. I can ASK him to do that, and I think that he as, at times! But I certainly cannot demand he do so, especially if I have no intention of stopping. Repentance is part of the equation here, for the believer.
If I cheat on my wife and she leaves, that is part of the consequences, and I cannot blame anyone but myself. I might have confessed to both God and my wife, but she's gone anyway.
That's not the absence of grace. It's a natural consequence of MY actions.
I discipline my children for deliberate actions. Do I forgive them? You bet. But I still ground them, take away privileges, and yes, even spank (NO anti-spanking posts, please. You can send those to me privately...)
Maybe a better way to express my viewpoint is this: do what we can to stop the spread and bring a cure. But take care of the INNOCENT victims first. Give the vaccine to the children first, not those willfully engaging in the dangerous behavior.
I hope that helps, Matt. Because I truly am a big-grace kinda guy!
Have a great day, bro!
Brian
Posted by: Brian La Croix | Dec 1, 2005 11:32:52 AM
Todd,
Instead of getting frustrated with other individuals thoughts on a particular subject, I would just voice your own rebuttal and thouhts. People have different perspectives on different subjects, and yes many times have a common thread passion that they see affecting many areas of Christianity.
This subject is heavily about Rick Warren and Bill Hybels, so if someone has a thought on them and how they apply to this subject, then so be it, express your own thoughts as well. But don't just say "your off topic".
When I am in a verbal conversation with an individual, I don't cut them off if they, in my eyes start to stray from "my topic", I let them voice their oppinion and how they feel it relates to the topic.
Just some thoughts.
Posted by: Kent | Dec 1, 2005 11:36:39 AM
Todd,
Have you read much on AIDS? I mean honestly, have you? Have you read anything that Gary Null wrote on it? Have you heard anything about Dr. Stephen Byrnes experience after an HIV+ test despite his knowledge of the subject which included authoring a book on how to naturally overcome AIDS - it took everything he had and knew to prevent the medical practitioners from forcing him onto ARV therapy. He subsequently experienced a period of restoration before finally succumbing to a stroke last June. I would suggest before you get too wound up in praising these guys for saying "something" that you make sure that what they are saying is the right thing.
Having heard so much come from the mouth and pen of Warren that is contrary to scripture and seeing in him a penchant for saying one thing and then doing another or saying the right thing and then teaching the opposite - one would expect a more diserning audience, but alas it appears the prophecy of 2 Tim 4:1-4 is ever-present and flourishing. For a preview text of this prophecy visit 1 Tim 3 to see what can be expected.
Warren himself said we need "deeds instead of Creeds" to which I would simply say without a sound Creed what guides your deeds and ability to judge the righteousness of what you do and teach to others?
In Christ,
Bill
Posted by: Bill | Dec 1, 2005 11:37:13 AM
Kent and Bill,
Rebuke taken.
No, I haven't read much about aids. I freely admit that. That's why I'm happy that someone in the church is bringing the subject up. It might just force people like be to become informed and do something.
About Rick Warren.
I want to be nice; but blunt.
We've discussed Rick Warren more than necessary here at the MMI Blog. Check around; read the posts; it's an old subject here.
I understand your concerns about Rick; but don't share them; and I don't really want to pay for the bandwidth to someone else to rag on the man here. It's my blog and my choice.
I have given many, many people an open forum here on Warren and his philosphy; his theology; and his practice. There's really not much more that can be added.
And I won't be drawn into an arguement on the subject either. Been there done that.
Here's the blunt part: If you don't like Warren, then go to one of the many anti-warren sites and have at it. Here, your post will be deleted cause we're just not going there.
Loving, but blunt,
Todd
Posted by: Todd | Dec 1, 2005 11:59:07 AM
Todd when did the Dilbert article become the rules of the blog?
Why are you taking things so personal?
Are you just trying to call Bill stupid or are you accusing him of calling you stupid???
I don't get why your so angry.
Pastor Al
the passage you're referring to is talking about Christians who are thirsty, Christians who need clothing, Christians who are hungry, Christians who are homeless. That's not to say we don't help non-christians because we do but it's not our primary mission.
The world is suppossed to see us caring for one another and want to be like us, not vice versa. I don't think Warren, Hybels or the 700 Club or any other Christian should want to help because Bono (non-christian) does.
And the James passage is also talking about the Christian "My Brothers" isn't non-christians, he's writing and encouraging Brothers.
GOOD POINT BRIAN!!!:
If I cheat on my wife and she leaves, that is part of the consequences, and I cannot blame anyone but myself. I might have confessed to both God and my wife, but she's gone anyway.
Posted by: BeHim | Dec 1, 2005 12:07:44 PM
Todd:
Thank you. 'Nuff said.
My church became active in helping with Aids orphans in Kenya after a pastor's wife returned and shared the heartwrenching stories, and gave an aveunue for concrete help. The problem is HUGE but so is the opportunity for practical and spiritual impact. I am very pleased to see BIG spotlights swinging that way!
Posted by: Julie | Dec 1, 2005 12:11:24 PM
