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Monday, February 13, 2006
MyLameSexLife.com Debuts
No no no... it's not my latest venture or website. Actually, it has nothing to do with me (thankfully!)
But Granger Community Church is doing it again... To debut their new series on Biblical and Godly views on sexuality called "PureSex"; they are promoting their new series to their target: those who find the world's view of sex has left them empty.
Granger is publicizing their new series with this new website:
You can see the intro and series opener here.
I'm sure it will raise some eyebrows in South Bend and across the blogosphere... but I have to say it... what a great idea.
(You see, the great thing about Granger, from my experience, is that they will actually tackle the subject. Those attending will get real answers to their questions... real Biblical answers; along with the message of Christ. You can't beat that combination.)
Go Go Granger Sex Series! (A little inspector gadget humor there).
Todd
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February 13, 2006 in Outreach and Evangelism | Permalink
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I like it! (The promo, that is! Well, I like...okay, I better just stop before I get in trouble with my wife!)
I took a look at the website, which then redirects toward Granger's website, where I find an interesting visual that raises a question. A quarter inch below and to the right of the puresex picture and the "headline" that reads "We're not afraid to talk about it" are the words, "Bring the kids"! Now I know the two are not related; the "bring the kids" part is simply a link to information about the kids' program at the church. But the positioning is just sort of interesting!
The question it raises is about how they will handle kids in the services. Our pastor is pretty sensitive to parents' desires, and so gives a disclaimer whenever he's going to talk about what he calls PG13 stuff. I wonder if Granger does the same, or if they have special programming for kids who normally would attend the services with their parents.
Posted by: Randy Ehle | Feb 13, 2006 4:36:45 PM
That IS interesting positioning. Granger has full children's programming; and I'm sure they're not doing the same subject. :)
Reminds me of the time that we were launching a contemporary service (back when contemporary services were in vogue). The name of the church was Trenton Hills Church; and the name of the service was Trenton Hills Extreme. The logical website choice was trentonhillsextreme.com. Can you believe that no one told me until months later about trentonhillSEXtreme.com? Everyone had seen that (but me) yet no one brought it to my attention. How embarrassing.
Todd
Posted by: Todd Rhoades | Feb 13, 2006 4:46:09 PM
Looks too racy to me. There's something about it I don't like. What's bugging me is probably the appeal of the flesh that they are going after.
Would they do something similar for drug users? Showing people how to get high on God?
...Bernie
Posted by: Bernie Dehler | Feb 13, 2006 6:57:26 PM
wow ... what a surprise Bernie doesn't like it ... (hey, at least they are talking about mutual submission, isn't that what you've been begging for???)
Posted by: Paul Davis | Feb 13, 2006 7:06:30 PM
There's a difference between sex and drugs, Bernie... sex isn't immoral when done with biblical guidelines. Drugs are immoral regardless.
Posted by: Todd Rhoades | Feb 13, 2006 8:29:37 PM
Todd says:
"Drugs are immoral regardless."
Do you consider alcohol a drug? If not, why not? Most Christians think it is also ok within Biblical guidelines "do not be drunk with wine" (tipsy, now that's ok).
...Bernie
Posted by: Bernie Dehler | Feb 13, 2006 10:46:21 PM
Todd, or anyone,
Okay, I will acknowledge that by most of your standards I probably fall in the category of an old f.rt, outdated and culturally irrelevant. So, when I comment on something like this I'm sure the tendency is to just discount whatever I say as coming from the has been section and offer me the addresses for some churches in Sun City, AZ or something. That's cool, and I can't blame you for that at all.
But what you've really got here is an old f.rt who truly wants to understand and is more than willing to be persuaded that this kind of publicity or marketing is Holy Spirit inspired and on the cutting edge of What the Lord would have us do in our culture to reach out as a Church to draw people from the world to Jesus.
I'm wanting to be a student here and sit at the feet of you who joyfully embrace this stuff, so you can teach me how to become more relevant than just straight shooting.
For background purposes, let me tell you I was one of the 1960's hippie flower children. Oh yah, hair down to my toosh, barefoot and bell bottoms, San Francisco's H&A district, volkswagen van, up and down the coastal beaches of CA etc. Drafted into the army and sent to Viet Nam, wounded and then got saved in an Army hospital bed.
I share that just to say that I am not nor ever have been at all naive to the world and the passions of life living in it. I probably smoked more dope and played around with "free love" i.e. sex, more than most people in the world even dream about it.
What keeps tripping me up when I try to get my teeth into going there with you all and getting into the spirit of creativity that this type of stuff is made of, is that I always get this feeling in my gut that by doing so I'm getting the philosophy of my strategy from the school of satan rather than the Lord.
It's like our enemy is all about counterfeiting. He always takes a little bit of truth and offers what looks real good and maybe even feels real good, and then after we take the bait, he sets his evil hooks into us. That is his undaunted trademark.
I'm not ignorant of cultural relativity, in fact, one of my Masters Degrees is in Cross-Cultural studies from Fuller in Pasadena, so I definitely embrace the idea of the dynamic behind cultural equivolency with the Word and our message.
But this stuff just feels to me like I would be lying to the people out there by throwing them something that looks and feels like the passions of the flesh, and then when they bite the bait, I switch it to the truth.
Am I making any sense about what I'm asking? Please help me here. I have been given an amazing measure of creativity and talent from the Lord, and if I were to find His peace and really know He was in it for me to make use of what He has invested in me this way, there is no doubt in my being that the impact it would have would be huge!
So, please, if you can't do it here, then email me...somebody give me something spiritually sound, biblically correct and Holy Spirit validating to encourage me in your direction.
Oh, BTW...I always have and still do preach and teach from the pulpit at a gut level of reality with this stuff, but that is talking with family in the Kindom of God for their growth.
HELPPP!!!
Posted by: Jim Eaton | Feb 13, 2006 11:43:28 PM
[What keeps tripping me up when I try to get my teeth into going there with you all and getting into the spirit of creativity that this type of stuff is made of, is that I always get this feeling in my gut that by doing so I'm getting the philosophy of my strategy from the school of satan rather than the Lord.]
Reminds me of two church references in Revelation:
12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.[a] 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
[But this stuff just feels to me like I would be lying to the people out there by throwing them something that looks and feels like the passions of the flesh, and then when they bite the bait, I switch it to the truth.]
and again a reminder of 2 Corinthians 2
For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ.
Be of good cheer Jim the lines are forming and perhaps you'll be on the Righteous side of the line, standing for Truth at whatever the cost (even if considered an enemy).
Then again perhaps not but we won't know unless we are ALL willing to test it with Scripture.
Persevere Saints! To the end and to The King!
Posted by: BeHim | Feb 14, 2006 1:38:56 AM
So Bernie and BeHim, help me out. Do you oppose the idea of tackling sex for a sermon series or do you just not like the marketing? Although this is pushing the edge even for me, I applaud them for addressing an issue that is so central to our beings. Sex is not something dirty. I think it's a shame we don't talk about it more even though sexual immorality is rampant. I love stuff like this and how people like John Eldridge and Steve Arterburn will unashamedly address sex and actually give us sound biblical wisdom as to WHY sexual immorality is harmful to how God intended us to engage in sexuality and wired us up. Stuff like that goes MILES for young people as opposed to just being told it's wrong.
I'll admit...the marketing is quite edgy...definitely an attention getter...but hey, s'long as they are sound in teaching...more power to them.
Posted by: Matt | Feb 14, 2006 10:16:33 AM
There's nothing wrong with teaching on the subject and it should be taught on Biblically. But this is another obvious ploy to "entice" the world into the church by appealing to the flesh.
Hmmm, I wonder if they would do this same type of advertising for a message on Wives submitting to the authority of their husbands?
Posted by: Kent | Feb 14, 2006 10:46:20 AM
Sometimes I think there is no way to win. Many times on this blog we hear accusations that the how the "seeker" and mega-church pastors are afraid to address hard to hear teachings of scripture. Teachings like God’s plan for sex between men and women within the bounds of heterosexual marriage.
Now Granger is being criticized for addressing it, attempting (I assume) to provide solid teaching about God's plan for sexuality. Granted, the marketing is edgy, but wouldn't we want people who have been educated about sexuality from pop culture to be drawn to a place where they can hear truth about God's plan human sexuality. Edgy marketing will indeed draw people who have been misled by false cultural messages.
Thanks Granger. We should be praying for you.
Wendi
Posted by: Wendi | Feb 14, 2006 10:48:57 AM
[Many times on this blog we hear accusations that the how the "seeker" and mega-church pastors are afraid to address hard to hear teachings of scripture. Teachings like God’s plan for sex between men and women within the bounds of heterosexual marriage].
Like I said this is a subject that should be taught on, Biblically and with dignity.
But Sex is not a "hard teaching" to the flesh.
Posted by: Kent | Feb 14, 2006 10:54:36 AM
Kent...you say that sex is not a "hard teaching"...are you serious?
What is "hard teaching" to you then? Maybe I've misunderstood...
Posted by: Matt | Feb 14, 2006 11:04:55 AM
Matt, The subject of sex is an easy sell for anything, look at car advertising, listen to music, look at what's on TV, look what's at the theater, look at magazines, look at the way people dress. Of course it's not a hard teaching to the flesh.
Posted by: Kent | Feb 14, 2006 11:14:09 AM
Dude, no it's not hard to sell. But the very argument you use can be turned around. Yeah, sex is EVERYWHERE!...all the more reason that the church needs to acknowledge that fact and tackle it. Sure it's gonna bring the people flocking...moreso the better! I fail to see your problem with it. It may not meet your criteria of "hard teaching"...but it sure is practical...something even we Christians need to get a dose of every now and then.
Posted by: Matt | Feb 14, 2006 11:20:26 AM
Matt,
You questioned it not being a hard teaching. I stated the facts, and I think you've finally seen it. It's an easy marketing sell to the flesh.
So now if you think it's right to market it like that, then that's your business.
Posted by: Kent | Feb 14, 2006 11:25:33 AM
Hey guys... have a touch of the flu today; so hopefully my thoughts are somewhat coherent.
I agree with Matt here, Kent. (Go figure). But I really think you cannot have it both ways; and here's a good example. I hope you can see the hole in your arguement.
My feeling is that if one of your main points about churches like Granger is that they water down the truth or shy away from tough subjects; then you should be very excited that they are taking a subject like sex (on which the Bible has ALOT to say) and presenting a biblical world view on the subject.
Maybe it's a little edgy for you... then just say 'it's a little edgy for me'. But don't fret that they aren't doing this series on submission. Come on.
Sex may be a good draw... but you through in all the teaching that they will be doing (against pre-marital/extra-marital / homosexual behavior, etc. that they will be doing; and it could very well be a quite unpopular topic.
I'm sure this is clear as mud (my head's a little jumbled) but seems that Granger has one right here; even using your criteria, Kent.
Todd
Posted by: Todd Rhoades | Feb 14, 2006 11:28:21 AM
Todd,
Like I said, it's an easy draw. You said, I can't have it both ways. I'm just looking for God's one way. Should it be taught? For sure, biblically and with dignity. Is cheap marketing trying to appeal to flesh with dignity? Hardly
Posted by: Kent | Feb 14, 2006 11:37:04 AM
Kent...I'm not sure this world is very "dignified"...especially young unbelievers. Should be handled responsibly? Of course. But show me what is irresponsible or undignified about this campaign. If anything...the opening promo is brutally honest.
Posted by: Matt | Feb 14, 2006 11:41:02 AM
[I'm not sure this world is very "dignified"...especially young unbelievers].
This is an easy marketing ploy is to the world. How about we put a sexy woman in a neglegee in the promo too? If you're fine with that, then so be it.
Posted by: Kent | Feb 14, 2006 11:51:08 AM
God's truth is not always pretty. And if it is the truth; then how can it be presented without dignity or not-biblically (it is, after all, Biblical). Seems like that the rationale you've used in the past... seems like it should apply here.
This marketing is no cheaper than the last case study we did on marketing: "We do church the Bible Way" and "We don't do entertainment". Granger's 'marketing' campaign is far less detrimental to the Kingdom since it's not focused on those already involved in the Kingdom.
Just my 2 cents.
Todd
Posted by: Todd Rhoades | Feb 14, 2006 11:51:56 AM
Kent: "How about we put a sexy woman in a neglegee in the promo too? If you're fine with that, then so be it."
Again, Kent... why do keep proposing things that they aren't doing to try to prove your point?
Why don't they give away hookers? Come on.
Todd
Posted by: Todd Rhoades | Feb 14, 2006 11:54:10 AM
[And if it is the truth; then how can it be presented without dignity or not-biblically (it is, after all, Biblical].
That is just silly. We both can see that the "marketing" is catered to the flesh. That is not dignified Todd, and is quite easy so see that. The attourney type gymnastics can try to dance around it, but the appeal to lust is NOT biblical.
Posted by: Kent | Feb 14, 2006 12:10:52 PM
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one (and everything else). Not taking any more time on this. Posting on a blog that is a little more sympathetic to your view would probably be a better use of your time as well. We're not changing any minds here. :)
I'm not sure what part of this campaign is making you lust? Are you, perhaps, looking at the feet and thinking that they people must be naked?
Also, I just deleted a comment from Bill (who will be quite furious). Bill managed to make this a purpose-driven post... sorry Bill... not going there.
Todd
Posted by: Todd Rhoades | Feb 14, 2006 12:18:40 PM
Kent: "How about we put a sexy woman in a neglegee in the promo too? If you're fine with that, then so be it."
Todd: "why do keep proposing things that they aren't doing to try to prove your point"?
Kent: I was quite simply making an exagerated comparison of appealing to the lust of the flesh, I assumed most could see that.
As far as "keep proposing things that they aren't doing to try to prove your point"?
Maybe you ought to examine yourself first before making statements like this;
Todd: [Man, BeHim and Kent would make great doctors.
How would you tell someone they need to stop smoking or they'll die from cancer? Maybe a bright red tee shirt that says 'Smoke now and Smoke later' (then in small letters ... "in hell!".
Or how about a person dying from AIDS (maybe another shirt that says 'get a life you pervert' (then in small letters... being queer is SIN!)
How would you treat an alcoholic? How about one that says, "Drink the wine... pay the fine" (small letters... eternal punishment in hell).
And a nice scripture reference under each shirt would add a specially nice touch].
Posted by: Kent | Feb 14, 2006 12:28:49 PM
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